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<paulproteus> #startmeeting
<sufjan> Meeting started Sat Aug 20 20:01:44 2011 UTC.  The chair is paulproteus. Information about MeetBot at
<sufjan> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
<paulproteus> #topic Say hi
* sufjan has changed the topic to: Say hi
<paulproteus> Gosh I am tired today.
<paulproteus> I should make some coffee.
<paulproteus> But more importantly, hi. (-:
<paulproteus> It is warm here.
<jledbetter> Hi. I am drinking dew.
<paulproteus> I know it's summer, but it's not really been warm here much lately.
<jledbetter> Really warm here too. Fall yet? ;)
<paulproteus> Sadly not yet!
<paulproteus> I am of the opinion that the monthly release goals should be on the wiki, and linked-to from the bug tracker.
<paulproteus> Leaving them on this hard-to-find pad isn't so great, it seems.
<jledbetter> Don't you have milestones though? Isn't that the same thing as release goals?
<paulproteus> Yeah -- exactly.
<paulproteus> We have milestones, which are date-based, and we try to get some things done during each milestone.
<jledbetter> So you kinda already have it on the bug tracker.
<paulproteus> Sometimes we have something of a theme.
<paulproteus> I think the "omg big list of bugs" isn't as motivating as "Here's what we're working toward"
<jledbetter> I like themes. It helped come up with where to focus on P2PU's releases.
<jledbetter> Yep!
<paulproteus> Anyone else around?
<paulproteus> I think aldeka is on a plane or something.
<paulproteus> jesstess might be, but she might also be hiding in a text editor or similar.
<jledbetter> Yeah I should be in one too (text editor)
<jledbetter> So, don't have much to report sorry :)
<paulproteus> That's okay (-:
<paulproteus> #topic Talk about what we're working on, and what we want help with
* sufjan has changed the topic to: Talk about what we're working on, and what we want help with
<jledbetter> I should have this other stuff done by mid-week and maybe have a little more time.
<paulproteus> Anything you want help with? (-:
<paulproteus> I'm happy about the progress toward ditching buildout.
<paulproteus> I sent updates to the mailing list. (-:
<jledbetter> It's not OH ;)
<jledbetter> Yeah saw that. Cool.
<jledbetter> Have you been getting a lot of new people not contributing because of buildout?
<jledbetter> (recently)
<paulproteus> Yeah, in particular Mjollnir` and I spent a while trying to get buildout going.
<jledbetter> Ah
<paulproteus> Plus kracekumar, who's helping track things on the bug tracker.
<paulproteus> Mjollnir` wants to use something OpenHatch-like, perhaps itself, for matching people with tasks within Debian.
<paulproteus> I think it'd be great to have her input on what features we need, so that we can enable people like her who want to be matchmakers between wannahelpers and prospective contributors.
<jledbetter> Ok
<paulproteus> I made a page at about the release theme/goals!
<paulproteus> Wow, suddenly, it is nice out.
<paulproteus> jesstess: Do you want to nail down the backup plan in the near future?
<paulproteus> It sure is nice to have this on the wiki. jledbetter, are there formatting changes you think might make the doc easier to read?
<paulproteus> Perhaps we could move things that are done into a different section.
* paulproteus does that.
<jledbetter> Sorry really distracted with coding :)
<jledbetter> yeah it's skimmable
<jledbetter> oh wait
<jledbetter> what's "DONE"
<jledbetter> that go to "get this started"?
<paulproteus> I'm separating it out; reload.
<jledbetter> oh ok cause Jessica's bug import stuff isn't done ;)
<jledbetter> thankfully she's got some time
<paulproteus> Awesome. (-:
<jledbetter> well, time left
<jledbetter> Oh. I think that bug (if that's me) is the mozilla one
<paulproteus> Oh, okay.
<paulproteus> I'll link to the bug in the doc.
<jledbetter> Yeah. Lighthouse is bigger.
<jledbetter> ty
<paulproteus> Thumbs up.
<jledbetter> Wow. Aug 4? Oy.
<paulproteus> Time flies!
<jledbetter> Indeed
<paulproteus> We've been way worse at getting people active the past few months, compared to (say) Nov through March 2011.
<paulproteus> Perhaps it was just the confluence of various people's activity levels.
<paulproteus> I think this release goals page is nice.
<paulproteus> I will file a bug to have the bug tracker link there.
<jledbetter> I blame summer. My library board gig takes the summer off as do a few other activities.
<paulproteus> Well I do hope it'll cool down soon (-:
<paulproteus> jesstess also is focusing more on events lately, with Boston Python Workshop in particular.
<paulproteus> I could stand to do a new contributor drive. Probably a good idea.
<paulproteus> I often feel like I want to clean things up so there are fewer embarrassing problems all around the site first, though.
<paulproteus> e.g. /people/ taking 4eva
<paulproteus> It looks like there's a reasonably quick fix for the the worst of that. I'll file a bug.
<paulproteus> I think it's fair to put that into "Stability".
<paulproteus> (which is one of the release goals)
<paulproteus> aldeka and you and I were talking last week about having more of a process for missions.
<paulproteus> I guess one other contributing factor is that I think that I wasn't as good at reviewing patches or organizing project goals in a timely fashion during April and May.
<paulproteus> I aim to improve at those now that I have more time, so that has a brighter future! (if it's a real issue)
<jledbetter> Timely reviews can be a factor for me but I can't speak for the other folks. I still blame summer ;)
<jledbetter> This sort of stuff totally fascinates me though. Like what can we do to make that perfect environment. Time (theme of today?) will tell.
<paulproteus> (-:
<jledbetter> Though... it's not summer for codepal right?
<paulproteus> Yeah, nor for pythonian4000afk!
<paulproteus> But pythonian4000afk has his own story, which is fine.
<jledbetter> Well, OH is here when they come back :)
<paulproteus> Yeah (-:
* paulproteus does some bug managing.
<jledbetter> Ok
<jledbetter> Meeting done did?
<paulproteus> I guess I've moved on to
<paulproteus> #topic Release planning
* sufjan has changed the topic to: Release planning
<jledbetter> Ah ok
<paultag> hey paulproteus, got lintian to fix up a few of those false positives on the package :)
<paultag> fixes are in vcs :)
<paulproteus> paultag: Nice!
<paultag> now, back to relaxing down the cape :)
<jledbetter> lol
<paulproteus> I'm filing bugs left and right.
<paulproteus> But I think these are good bugs to have.
<paultag> I'd rather a list of 200 bugs that are all triaged and ack'd then no bug tracker and buggy software :)
<paulproteus> OpenHatch is buggy but has a bug tracker. Where does that fall in your worldview? (-:
<paultag> :P
<paulproteus> (but has some un-filed bugs! filing 'em now)
<paultag> for me when the maintainer of some code is all "oh no, that can't happen" or somehow dodges claiming the bug as their fault, it makes me feel like they're sleezeballs, rather then Oh yeah, I have a bug on that, number #nnn, comment on there or subscribe or something
<paultag> and projects without bug trackers tend to be of the first kind
<madsy> paultag: What it isn't their fault? :P
<madsy> +if
<paultag> madsy: "user error"
<paultag> yeah I don't buy that :)
<madsy> Sometimes that can be true.
<paultag> someone should be able to sit down and hammer on the system and not break it
<paultag> unless there's a damn good reason not to
<madsy> But maybe it's a bit overused as an excuse
* paultag shrugs
<paultag> I tend to just re-write stuff, so I don't really get to that point often :)
<paulproteus> Well.
<paulproteus> #topic What we hope to get done before the next meeting
* sufjan has changed the topic to: What we hope to get done before the next meeting
<paulproteus> I guess I "wasted" a bunch of time this past week on virtualenv stuff, but I'm really happy that the story of ditching buildout is closer to success now.
<paulproteus> (-:
<paulproteus> jledbetter: You're still angling to get done this week?
<paulproteus> I'm spending lots of time fixing these niggling details, but in the near future, we should get around something more overhaul-esque of so much of the site.
<paulproteus> I guess I also think that the overhaul-type stuff will be more exciting for people.
<paulproteus> Some of that is blocking on mockups by aldeka. She said she's willing to do the IWH mockups this week, which is good news.
<madsy> paultag: If it's free, you get what you pay for ;-)
<madsy> Of course, if you fail to fix obvious faults in software, one can't expect to be taken seriously.
<paultag> oh no he di-ent. 
<paultag> madsy: you're saying that in a room full of neckbeard freetards :)
<paulproteus> Yeah, I'm leaving it alone until post-meeting at the very least (-:
<paulproteus> #info paulproteus 's top priority after some critical fixes is to ship Calagator this week, which will probably mean writing the login integration code if jcsims isn't back by then.
<jledbetter> paulproteus, I have to get P2PU stuff done first. Then will try.
<paulproteus> Sounds good.
<jledbetter> paulproteus, But I have till sep 30 I thought
<paulproteus> For some reason I thought we were going to ship this release on August 31.
<paulproteus> But the piratepad said Sep 30.
<jledbetter> I thought that -- yeah. I'm confused :) I'll try!
<paulproteus> I happen to prefer skipping just one month, not two, which is what Sep 30 would mean.
<paulproteus> clarity++
<paulproteus> I am a bigger and bigger fan of putting release goals on the wiki.
<paulproteus> And linking to them from the bug tracker.
<paulproteus> #info paulproteus will attempt to chomp through the remaining OH bugs in the next 10 days. Let's see how this goes.
<paulproteus> I think that's all for the meeting.
<paulproteus> (the remaining bugs for 0.11.07)
<paulproteus> I think that it's now safe to
<paulproteus> #endmeeting
* sufjan has changed the topic to: This week's meeting: 4 PM US/Eastern, Sat Aug 13 | Let's make the open source community easier to join | If nobody answers, stick around and someone will | Channel is logged, "/msg SNAILBot help" for more info | "b" is a good thing: | Unlogged chat in #openhatch-unlogged | Logs at
<sufjan> Meeting ended Sat Aug 20 20:55:16 2011 UTC.